Monday, 24 September 2012

Stradiot Banner Advice Needed!


I think the title is pretty self explanatory. The Perry Stradiot Command pack comes with a great sculpt of a chap holding a banner which is just begging to be made into something special. My Stratiots for the Battle of Fornovo will be in Venetian service and with this in mind I've been delving into the net in an attempt to find an appropriate pic of the sort of banner they may have carried as they crossed the river with many of the other Italian Light Cavalry/Troops.

I've come up with something of a blank except for one pic of someone's army that is displaying the following, which for me is the banner of Venice itself :

The pic below from Camisado, a blog woth following IMHO:



Banner/Standard of Venice

Now, my question to all those in the know is, would the Stradiots have been granted the use of the Venetian Standard/Banner? Were they important enough? I do not know the answer so I'm looking for folk with a better knowledge of the subject to come to my rescue. Basically.... please help!??
On the sunnier side of things I did come up with some great pics that have come in very handy when it comes to painting the models up and also adding the odd conversion (mainly on the 'hats' as I'm not convinced that they would all be wearing the same clobber!


So, lots to be going on with and you shall see the results very soon- assuming of course, that someone kind out there is able to help me out with the banner problem :O)

Yeah, that was certainly a hint (and a half)! :O)
Darrell

13 comments:

  1. Hi Darrell

    When I wrote my post on the Stradiots I had been searching for Stradiot banners and could find nothing so I just made the banner interchangeable so they can carry various flags. It also means you can have the figures fighting for various states.

    I asked the same question about the banners and a helpful gentleman sent me this link to his family coat of arms as historically they were Stradiots in northern Italy, his surname was Strasiotto! This is the link:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/noidzarts/6992419111/

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    1. Hmmm.... thanks for that, very interesting. Maybe a coat of arms and the banner of Venice?

      Darrell.

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  2. Hi Darrel,
    there's contemporary pictures of stradiots carrying pennants on their spears dating from the reign of Louis XII. These are forked and red over yellow; all the stradiots have them and the're in the Louis' livery colours so not likely to be a banner.

    Similarly depictions of the seige of Genoa have stradiots carrying red pennants with a golden device on them which may be the lion of St. Mark. The flag for the stradiot commander for Charles V is pretty easy to find on the net and there's an Italian book on the battle of Marignano which has a stradiot carrying a flag with the Lion of St Mark holding a yellow shield with a black eagle on it. This flag however, likely dates to 1508 or after.

    Personally I don't think you'd go far wrong with a lion of st.Mark on a red field.

    cheers Pete

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    1. Thanks for that Pete. You have saved my bacon!!

      Interesting to hear about them carrying lance pennants as this will certainly add some nice detail to the units.

      BTW, I still have to get back to you re: heraldry/banners/standards at Fornovo. I will do this ASAP, it's just that it's taking a little more time than anticipated :O(

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    2. The Venetia Lion of St Mark would certainly seem to be suitable if in Venetian servie; I recall reading somewhere that the stradiots often carried a banner depicting St John the Baptist, and one of my stradiot units is so adorned.

      Peter

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    3. Very interesting.

      Do you have a link to a picture so that I could have a good look at the banner please?

      Darrell.

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  3. Hi Darrel, I've started to look out and to ask around for any information on Fornovo; so far the most interesting thing that's come to light is Gonzaga's men at arms wore a dogs muzzle emblem with the motto 'cautius' written on their tabards. The commander of the stradiots was a Pietro Duodo, I've got no info on him as yet.

    cheers Pete

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    1. Music to my ears Pete! :O)

      I very much like the irony of Gonzaga's men at arms bearing a dogs muzzle (as a badge?) and 'cautius' on their tabards. They sound like they needed a reminder from time to time :O)

      Any info. re: Pietro Duodo's coat of arms would be bloomin' fantastic Pete. Please keep digging mate. I'll probably have a notice next to the demo game saying flags by Pete! Why not? It may well be the case.

      Darrell.

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  4. If they were employed by Venice, then they would have carried a Venetian standard. The Venetians were quite fussy about 'brand awareness'. They could still carry the coat of arms or 'stemma' of their commander though and obviously lance pennants/streamers.

    I'll go with Pete on the colours of the Venetian flag and pennants, it seems the most likely colour.

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    1. That certainly makes sense Jim. The Venetians, as I'm certain you know, were after all the at the zenith of excellence as European traders in the East. Ever since the Fourth Crusade and probably well before that too.

      I'm going to include some lance pennents on the ordinaly soldiery in my Stradiot 'units', more for their visual impact on the table than an actual nod to history. But - hey, who's to say that they didn't carry lance pennents into battle? I have a niggling feeling that someone is going to catch me out here :O)) Please feel free, I'd like to read as much as possible regarding Fornovo.

      Darrell.

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  5. Lance pennants (or streamers) had a practical purpose as well as a decorative one, I doubt that they would not have them to be honest.

    As for people catching you out, you have to presume that their opinions are backed by solid fact, a rarity as far as history is concerned. How many times have 'historical facts' and 'wargame facts' turned out to be totally untrue?

    What you have so far sounds like an impressive looking unit, I'd stick with that!

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  6. I painted mine with a simple red and yellow striped banner with a single swallow tail from the leading fly.

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